Silver-Bronze Delays Decision

The Village Working Group has learned that Silver-Bronze’s board delayed its decision regarding the sale of the Coto Valley Country Club until next week to give AllStar Events one last chance to improve its bid.

Some deal points are:

  • Price
  • Time of Closing
  • Length of time before AllStar Events could develop the club as homes or assisted living
  • Future cash payment to Silver-Bronze at conversion to homes or assisted living

Stay tuned… the blog will be updated as new information becomes available.

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15 thoughts on “Silver-Bronze Delays Decision”

  1. I agree with Jim. There can be no change to residential or Assisted Living without Village consent and rezoning approval, so why even mention it in the ‘deal points.’ It seems like this is just to add more confusion,
    Looking at the Working Groups recent survey results it appears that a lot of Village residents wanted no change in HOAs or membership fees to ensure the future of the club. Now it appears that there are a lot of upset neighbors who don’t want an outside operator. Basic math tells you that you can’t have it all ways. A slight increase in HOAs 5 years ago could have changed the future of the club – now it will be decided by outsiders who hopefully will work to restore the club to its former glory and make it a profitable entity. The Coto Golf and Racquet Club has shown that this can be a winning formula – but the CVCC will need neighborhood support and patronage to stand a chance of becoming the heartbeat of the community and once again increasing the desirability of living in the village . If I were moving into a new neighborhood I would much rather move into one with a vibrant community center and gathering place for its neighbors than to consider extra rows of faceless houses and no amenities to enjoy.

  2. Hello Neighbors,
    The civil discourse here is refreshing. Thank you to the comment moderator, to Village residents adding facts and information, and to Kenney Paul Hrabik for sharing his vision for CVCC.

    There’s been much recent excitement over Mr. Paul’s bid to buy the club. What you may not know is that my husband I also investigated the purchase of the club to run as a recreation / event space in an effort to preserve the Village lifestyle we’ve all grown to love. Why didn’t we do it?

    After careful cost analysis of purchase price, plus capital to perform upgrades for Americans with Disabilities Act compliance and necessary beautification to get competitive pricing, plus liability insurance, maintenance, utilities and staffing we realized we would need to bring in a minimum average monthly revenue of more than $50,000.

    According to fire code, the current interior space may hold less than 80 seated guests.

    Consequently, most large events – which weddings tend to be and which bring in the highest revenue – would have to be held outside, or we would need to demolish the entire inside brick chimney hearth space to open up an interior ballroom.

    The only way our projected monthly revenue requirement could be met would be to hold as many events as possible during the peak wedding and party season of April – October. We calculated we’d need to hold 2-3 weddings per weekend, in addition to hosting business conferences and small meetings during the week. We also factored in other events like bridal showers, anniversaries and birthday parties. Mr. Paul sees it the same way as he states in his open Letter to Village Homeowners, ” By hosting one or two weddings / events per week, we will be profitable.” That’s 52 – 104 parties a week. Offering dinners and an ice cream shop and maintaining the current club as he proposes might help with revenue, but that’s far less lucrative than adding one extra event per weekend.

    My husband and I concluded it was unrealistic to expect added income by offering residents membership to pay a monthly fee for a facility that would seldom be available to them during peak hours, and even less likely that those residents who currently favor social/fitness memberships at Coto de Caza Golf and Racquet Club would ever return to CVCC. History bears us out on this. I’m not sure how expensive the dinners and ice creams would have to be to make up the difference.

    After consulting with brides, wedding planners, contractors, landscapers, and looking at competing current venues, we learned that to earn prime revenue, brides want a venue without visibility of a gym, children using a pool, or club guests wandering about who aren’t invited. They want a bride’s room, a groom’s room, and a private ceremony space.

    We discovered that with less capital outlay we could capture the lower end of the wedding market, but to lower our prices meant we’d need to put on even more events.

    Ultimately, we decided we weren’t afraid of the hard work of running an event venue, nor the risk of an expanded venture, but that our goal of doing so to preserve the Village lifestyle would be negated. We didn’t want to negatively impact our neighbors weekend after weekend. All of us are simply trying to enjoy the peace and quiet of a home in our Village backyard.

    We live on Via Halcon and we didn’t want to hear dance bass thumping every weekend night until 10 p.m. And yes, we do hear the club parties in our backyard. We didn’t want you to worry about the scores of revelers weaving through our dark and windy roads every Friday and Saturday night trying to find their drunken way home. We didn’t you want to know the name of every “Introducing the new Mr. and Mrs…” all summer long.

    Do you know that there’s nothing we can do if Mr. Paul’s offer is accepted and then, too late, we decide this bothers us? During Paul’s Conditional Use Permit process in the city of Dove Canyon, more than 40 noise studies were performed, incited by noise complaints. One event at which the noise study was performed held 180 guests. None of the noise complaints was deemed valid as the ambient noise fell below city-mandated guidelines. He’s behaving well within his rights.

    Do you know that Dove Canyon Wedding Venue is in a commercial district, adjacent to a pet hotel, a Gold’s Gym, and a dry cleaners?

    Do you know that according to the current light commercial zoning restrictions at the CVCC that events are allowed, and if an event company buys the property to host events we will be powerless to close it down or limit its scope?

    Do you know that according to California Real Estate Law, when you decide to sell your house you will be required to disclose the noise and excessive traffic nuisance to your future buyer?

    I wish Mr. Paul well from the bottom of my heart, but I doubt he’s a philanthropist nor is the Village one of his charities. I don’t expect him to support our lifestyle at the expense of being profitable. I’ve never met a business person who invests capital and time who doesn’t seek to make a profit so I have a very difficult time believing what he wrote in his Letter to Village Homeowners: “Even if I run the club at a small loss, I am fine with that.”

    I don’t expect he will be fine with that for very long. And none of us should. According his http://www.allstarevents.com website, his business is putting on “spectacular events.” and as he says in his open letter, “I have for 28 years, been one of Orange Counties leading event planners.” I believe that.

    And knowing these facts, none of us should be surprised nor complain when those “leading events” happen in our residential neighborhood, nor when the profitless club must be closed. We can’t say we didn’t know it was coming and we urge you to consider the huge negative impact that selling CVCC to All Star Events would have. I doubt that’s the legacy Silver Bronze wants to leave.

    Respectfully,
    Cathy Keefe

  3. The number of weddings or events currently held at the club are very infrequent now. However, when there are events, we hear everything from the DJ making announcements, the music from either a DJ or a live band, and the voices from the people attending the event. We live up the hill from the poolside of the club and the sound echoes up the hill. Mary, you are lucky you don’t hear the noise, but that be because of the way sounds carry or because you are on the side of the club where the ceremonies are held which are generally quieter than receptions. But if Mr. Hrabik succeeds in acquiring the club and holds one to two events a week, it will have an impact on the value of our home because we’ll have to disclose the noise from the club when we sell. And, what if he decides to hold dinner outside by the pool Mon – Thursday or that he needs to increase the number of events as he has done at Dove Canyon. It’s one thing to hear pool noises, but another to hear the bass from music and intermittent announcements over a mic. In addition to the noise, the amount of traffic generated by those events will also be an issue. And, we agree with Jim, when alcohol is served there is always a few who over imbibe. Mary may not have seen a problem with them driving out of the club parking lot, but what happens to them further on down the road when they can no longer maintain focus on driving and there are no street lights and curves in the road. We don’t believe that “just keep your windows shut” (suggested by one member of PTV) is a viable solution. If we wanted to live inside with our windows shut when it’s beautiful outside, we could have saved ourselves a lot of money and bought a condo in a high rise. Also, we have learned from talking to people who live next to the Dove Canyon Courtyard, that noise continues to be an issue, but after a four to five year battle, there is nothing more they can do. It seems that the attitude is to save the club house no matter what the impact is on other residents who will have to deal with the constant noise. We would like to see the club house saved, but not if there are going to be noise-generating events twice or more per week which are incongruous with the natural, peaceful beauty of Coto and the village life style which everyone agrees is so important to preserve. Glenn & Susan

  4. how is no one concerned about the construction traffic and years of building that will be the alternative option if homes go in there. Not to mention, for the lifetime of that neighborhood we will have a major increase in traffic and noise based on the volume of people they are trying to cram in to that space. I live right across the street from the club and I have zero concern about the noise from weddings. I am more worried about a bunch of unknown construction workers and a whole new community of neighbors that will be here for a long long time. It will be years before that project would be finished and you will have hundreds of people house shopping, building, and taking over our neighborhood. And by the way, preserve the village hasn’t been trying to hide anything… They have made one claim and that is my home my vote. Encouraging our neighborhood to keep control of what we CAN control and that is the zoning. So those of you not wanting a few weddings a month at the clubhouse… Get ready for 6 days a week of construction equipment, workers hanging around our neighborhood and the sound of a hammer EVERYDAY for the next several years…

  5. There is a big movement by Preserve the Village to make us believe that Kenney Paul Hrabik will bring back the Village to the old days. But that may not be exactly true. Let’s look at what the Village is really getting with an event venue. Kenney Paul is an event planner. He owns the Dove Canyon Courtyard and AllStar Events, http://www.allstarevents.com/. Look at his website. His goal is to make spectacular events. Here are the facts. Dove Canyon residents have filed numerous noise complaints with the City of RSM regarding Dove Canyon Courtyard. During Mr. Hrabik’s CUP process, of getting permits for the venue, there were over 40 noise studies done. The City determined that he was within the noise ordinance rules. Why were the residents fighting if the noise was within the noise ordinance. Because the noise is constant during the prime time residents enjoy their peace and quiet. The City put conditions on the CUP for Mr. Hrabik to hold only 187 events and 80 weddings per year. Even in Mr. Hrabik letter to the Village he states he plans on “only having 1-2 events a week”. That translates into 52 to 104 weddings a year. We all know weddings are held on weekends. So imagine every Friday, Saturday or Sunday with constant noise for 4-6 hours emanating from the club generally up until 10 pm at night. Also, for those homeowners that hear the noise it will probably be a requirement that you fully disclose, when you sell your house, that there is a noise nuisance of a commercial event venue in a residential neighborhood. This will not increase your property values.

    What about the people attending? We have all been to weddings. In one sound study by the City over 180 people attended. Shouldn’t we be concerned that 100’s of people from outside the Village will be coming in to “party and celebrate” every weekend. We all know that the friends of the bride and groom are the ones that generally are drunk, intoxicated and loud as they are leaving the event. Imagine all those people leaving intoxicated and on the streets of our Village.

    In my opinion this is not bringing back the Village to the old days but making it worse for our residents and property values.

    Jim Keefe, resident for 15 years.

    1. Perhaps Mr. Keefe is unaware that there have been weekend weddings at the club for years during the warmer months. We live directly across from the club and not once have heard any noise or had any problems with intoxicated guests or anything else wedding related. We actually very much enjoy seeing the bride and bridal party when they are taking outside photos on the beautiful green space in front of the club. We definitely would have nothing to disclose about the events if we were to sell our home, where we have lived in wedded bliss for 11 years 😊
      Jim and Mary Fabian

      1. Yes, there have been infrequent weddings at the club. Probably not more than 2 per month. Based on the proposal there will be up to 2 per week. I am happy you don’t hear the noise from the club. Living on Via Halcon we hear the noise every time the club has a party or event to the point we can specifically hear the names of the bride and groom as they announce there arrival. Events once in awhile – No problem. Every weekend – Now that is a problem.

  6. I am the owner of Dove Canyon Courtyard and would like to address past noise concerns. When we first opened, there were some complaints. We addressed those concerns by installing sound panels around the dance floor, and hiring an in-house DJ. Since then, we have successfully past over 40 different sound studies performed by code enforcement and professional sound engineers. That is why the RSM City Council voted unanimously to give us our business permits. We showed we could operate well below the legal allowable sound level permitted by law. The sound studies showed the crickets were louder than the guests and music coming from The Courtyard. Remember, Dove Canyon Courtyard is an OUTDOOR Wedding Venue. Coto Valley Country Club is primarily INDOORS. Since we were given our permits 4 years ago, there has only been one complaint to the city about noise. We have a cell number that has been given to the neighbors that they can call anytime with concerns. If my offer is accepted by Silver – Bronze Corp, I plan on being a responsible owner and operate the club in a manner that the village neighborhood will embrace.

    Kenney Paul
    email: info@DovecanyonCourtyard.com

    1. Thanks for addressing the issue. Also, thanks to the moderators of the blog for posting Kenny’s reply. It is precisely this type of dialog which will enable everyone to make the best decision. I would encourage the board to reexamine their policy of not allowing the bidders from making such post.

  7. We are opposed to Kenney Paul purchasing the club because we do not believe that an event center belongs in the middle of a residential neighborhood. We, too, would like to see the club remain, but not at the expense of forfeiting peace and quiet. What has been suspiciously absent in Preserve The Village dissemination of opinion, information, misinformation, and accusations, was that Kenny Paul Hrabik’s Dove Canyon Courtyard was the subject more than 2 years of neighborhood battles over noise concerns which in the end resulted in the division of the RSM/Dove Canyon community. We have noted that his group of supporters was comprised primarily of those people who attended functions versus lived in close proximity. You can read for yourself as we have done and make your own decision as we did. Caveat Emptor. (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/noise-294314-sound-dove.html) (http://www.cityofrsm.org/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=6955)
    (http://www.cityofrsm.org/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=7644)
    (http://www.cityofrsm.org/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=6976)
    (http://www.cityofrsm.org/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?blobid=7558)
    (http://www.ranchocielo.org/meetings/67_.pdf)

  8. I think it’s important to post Kenny Paul’s great response. I also believe his proposal is reasonable, as evidence by the further deliberation. Previously I thought such a white night was not credible. Rather than looking forward to a battle with developers and the sbg over the next few years – because of the vision Kenny has cast – I see sitting down with the kids for a root bear float after a swim. If anyone sees the prior alternative preferable to the latter, I have know some good counselors I might recommend. Perhaps if Kenny would like additional financial support to enhance his offer, village residence might buy in to this part of the investment which not only would aid Kenny in his potential offer but would unify interest of village residence to maintaining a vital center. I think I have maintained an unbiased position with respect to the various groups commenting on the relevant developments but I must say I am greatly disappointed with the most recent update of the VWG.

  9. Very good question Joe… The posting from the VWG on our blog seemed to imply that Kenney Paul intends to build homes in the future. Absolutely this is NOT the case. SBC is wanting this clause so that they could make money on the club in the future IF homes were to EVER go in there. However… Kenney Paul has adamantly said he is not in the business of building homes and has GREAT plans for our club to remain a club and be successful. You will soon see a response to this. Its disappointing that this message was conveyed because this is NOT the only reason SBC delayed their decision and furthermore, the posting implies that the event coordinator wants to put homes there when he wants nothing more than to make the club a great part of our community and a place where beautiful events can be held. I hope everyone takes this delay in the decision making process as an opportunity to email SBC and support the club remaining a CLUB.

  10. I am confused. It was my understanding that if AllStar Events was to purchase the property they would not develop the club as homes or assisted living at any time but use it for events. If they plan on developing in the future, does that mean there is no alternative to having the land developed?

    1. Hi Joe,
      The owner of AllStar Events, Kenney Paul, has said if he purchases the club he intends to use the property for events. The deal points being discussed between SBC and AllStar Events seem to be setting conditions under which AllStar could use the property for a different land use at some point in the future. It’s not saying anything will or will not happen — just conditions should the land use change.

      Donnelle

    2. The only confusion is the VWG reporting. Of all the potential buyers, AllStar Events has consistently said they want to keep the club and operate it as a club. This would be a good for SBC as presumably this would be a no contingency deal which would expedite closing and payment to SBC.

      If however, SBC sells to a developer, the new owner must first ask the HOA members to change the CC&Rs via secret vote to permit residential development. Recent surveys by the Preserve the Village organization shows Village homeowners overwhelming oppose residential or commercial development where the club now located. Without such a change to the CC&Rs, the new owners would be faced with an unending money pit as the HOA would insist that the existing structure and property be maintained, and the new owners would be prevented from converting it to residential housing.

      It’s curious that the VWG would mention possible deed restrictions placed on AllStar Events. Reporting on things like dead time and deferred payments if the lot is subsequently offered as residential development simply clouds the issue. These red herring deed restrictions serve no purpose except to confuse.

      What is for sure is that regardless of who owns the club, the owner is subject to the current CC&Rs. Using the club as a club is seamless. Converting the land to residential or commercial use would entail an uphill battle to prevail in a secret vote to change the CC&Rs.

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